Comments on: Chucking out the kitchen sink http://www.limericktango.com/2008/06/chucking-out-the-kitchen-sink/ ...from the Shannon to the Rio de la Plate Wed, 21 Jul 2010 18:48:26 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0 By: Limerick Tango » Blog Archive » Just enough education to perform http://www.limericktango.com/2008/06/chucking-out-the-kitchen-sink/#comment-109 Limerick Tango » Blog Archive » Just enough education to perform Mon, 30 Nov 2009 15:04:52 +0000 http://www.limericktango.com/blog/?p=460#comment-109 [...] long time ago I established that the basic-eight is not the corner-stone of tango. That instead the foundations of tango lie in the walk. But [...] [...] long time ago I established that the basic-eight is not the corner-stone of tango. That instead the foundations of tango lie in the walk. But [...]

]]> By: LimerickTango http://www.limericktango.com/2008/06/chucking-out-the-kitchen-sink/#comment-108 LimerickTango Tue, 22 Jul 2008 11:45:19 +0000 http://www.limericktango.com/blog/?p=460#comment-108 Hi Larry, I teach the walk as the primary figure. If you follow <a href='http://www.limericktango.com/blog/category/weighty-discussion/the-preparatory-cycle/' rel="nofollow">the preparatory cycle</a> you'll see that each class begins with the walk and I develop different steps out of that. You are entirely correct about boredom and self-doubt though in the drive to stave off boredom I think many teachers throw too many figures at people in an attempt to hook them, only increasing the likelihood of self-doubt. Hi Larry,
I teach the walk as the primary figure. If you follow the preparatory cycle you’ll see that each class begins with the walk and I develop different steps out of that.

You are entirely correct about boredom and self-doubt though in the drive to stave off boredom I think many teachers throw too many figures at people in an attempt to hook them, only increasing the likelihood of self-doubt.

]]> By: Larry Carroll http://www.limericktango.com/2008/06/chucking-out-the-kitchen-sink/#comment-107 Larry Carroll Tue, 22 Jul 2008 02:46:44 +0000 http://www.limericktango.com/blog/?p=460#comment-107 I agree with you. I consider the cross an advanced figure - well, an advanced BASIC figure. But I'd be curious what you teach as the very first figure, and how it relates to the larger structure of basic figures. ____________ Before I go further, let me interject a few questions. I'm planning to come to Limerick from Los Angeles for one day in mid-September. I can likely schedule my visit to fall on the day of your milonga. But will your milonga be on the same day then as it is now? Will your milonga BE? (Are you likely to change schedule any time soon?) And lastly do you have any recommendation for a good hotels mentioned in following Google map - all of which are a few blocks from your milonga? http://maps.google.com/maps?near=62+O'Connell+St,+Limerick,+Co.+Limerick,+Ireland&geocode=&q=hotel&f=l&hl=en&sll=52.664151,-8.630276&sspn=0.023217,0.052528&ie=UTF8&z=15 _________________ Back to the subject. My teaching method is to immediately pair up people and set up a rotation. Most students come to meet people. If you don't satisfy this need you'll lose your students. Second, I have them listen to music and find the slow-slow rhythm that is the basic rhythm of tango. Third I get them moving to that rhythm, stepping in place (the cadencia) starting the men off on their left and the women on their right. After a few seconds of this I have them change partners so that those who had none the previous round have one now. Then repeat. Lastly, I start the music and have the men lead their partners into the flow of the crowd and dance. This last is crucial. As soon as possible students need to begin thinking of tango as (1) something they can do, and (2) fun. We teachers need to hook them. Advanced figure and other techniques can wait for later. That stuff will be hard enough without adding boredom and self-doubt to the mix. Here's hoping I can attend the Limerick milonga. And I'm absolutely delighted to be able to attend the land of my ancestors. "Laer" Carroll Larry de Los Angeles I agree with you. I consider the cross an advanced figure – well, an advanced BASIC figure. But I’d be curious what you teach as the very first figure, and how it relates to the larger structure of basic figures.
____________
Before I go further, let me interject a few questions. I’m planning to come to Limerick from Los Angeles for one day in mid-September. I can likely schedule my visit to fall on the day of your milonga.

But will your milonga be on the same day then as it is now? Will your milonga BE? (Are you likely to change schedule any time soon?) And lastly do you have any recommendation for a good hotels mentioned in following Google map – all of which are a few blocks from your milonga?

http://maps.google.com/maps?near=62+O‘Connell+St,+Limerick,+Co.+Limerick,+Ireland&geocode=&q=hotel&f=l&hl=en&sll=52.664151,-8.630276&sspn=0.023217,0.052528&ie=UTF8&z=15
_________________
Back to the subject. My teaching method is to immediately pair up people and set up a rotation. Most students come to meet people. If you don’t satisfy this need you’ll lose your students.

Second, I have them listen to music and find the slow-slow rhythm that is the basic rhythm of tango. Third I get them moving to that rhythm, stepping in place (the cadencia) starting the men off on their left and the women on their right.

After a few seconds of this I have them change partners so that those who had none the previous round have one now. Then repeat. Lastly, I start the music and have the men lead their partners into the flow of the crowd and dance.

This last is crucial. As soon as possible students need to begin thinking of tango as (1) something they can do, and (2) fun. We teachers need to hook them. Advanced figure and other techniques can wait for later. That stuff will be hard enough without adding boredom and self-doubt to the mix.

Here’s hoping I can attend the Limerick milonga. And I’m absolutely delighted to be able to attend the land of my ancestors.

“Laer” Carroll
Larry de Los Angeles

]]> By: LimerickTango http://www.limericktango.com/2008/06/chucking-out-the-kitchen-sink/#comment-106 LimerickTango Wed, 02 Jul 2008 10:31:48 +0000 http://www.limericktango.com/blog/?p=460#comment-106 Modern Tanguera I'd love to be in a position where I could start leaders and followers separately, but unfortunately my set up wouldn't really accommodate this. Plus I think the Irish have enough problems with single sex education as it is :-) I also agree that the cross is not the sole cause of poor leading and following but it was the stone in a shoeful of grit. The other causes I hope to thwart by teaching very simple phrases that can be altered by the leaders very easily. I think I might write about the phrases I'm teaching. Modern Tanguera I’d love to be in a position where I could start leaders and followers separately, but unfortunately my set up wouldn’t really accommodate this. Plus I think the Irish have enough problems with single sex education as it is :-)

I also agree that the cross is not the sole cause of poor leading and following but it was the stone in a shoeful of grit. The other causes I hope to thwart by teaching very simple phrases that can be altered by the leaders very easily.

I think I might write about the phrases I’m teaching.

]]> By: Modern Tanguera http://www.limericktango.com/2008/06/chucking-out-the-kitchen-sink/#comment-105 Modern Tanguera Wed, 02 Jul 2008 02:47:22 +0000 http://www.limericktango.com/blog/?p=460#comment-105 I think this is likely a good idea, but I think the problem extends beyond the cross. I found that throughout my beginning classes I had trouble not just going through the motions. One of the hardest things for followers is to learn how to follow! I didn't realize I wasn't following until I went to a practica and danced with other leaders. I am now very good at following just what was led (obviously not perfect, but I am very demanding in a practice setting and have had leaders thank me for it!), but it took a lot of time to get over the "do the steps that were just taught" problem and really follow. I think my ideal class would keep leaders and followers separate until the leaders have been taught how to lead whatever they are working on. Then the followers could be brought in (having been taught various things about their technique) to discover whatever it is that the leaders are doing. I don't know how well it would turn out, but I like the idea. I think this is likely a good idea, but I think the problem extends beyond the cross. I found that throughout my beginning classes I had trouble not just going through the motions. One of the hardest things for followers is to learn how to follow! I didn’t realize I wasn’t following until I went to a practica and danced with other leaders. I am now very good at following just what was led (obviously not perfect, but I am very demanding in a practice setting and have had leaders thank me for it!), but it took a lot of time to get over the “do the steps that were just taught” problem and really follow.

I think my ideal class would keep leaders and followers separate until the leaders have been taught how to lead whatever they are working on. Then the followers could be brought in (having been taught various things about their technique) to discover whatever it is that the leaders are doing. I don’t know how well it would turn out, but I like the idea.

]]> By: LimerickTango http://www.limericktango.com/2008/06/chucking-out-the-kitchen-sink/#comment-104 LimerickTango Tue, 01 Jul 2008 22:50:09 +0000 http://www.limericktango.com/blog/?p=460#comment-104 This is to be part of a continuing cycle of classes. I hope to avoid the cross as much as possible in the beginners class. This is to be part of a continuing cycle of classes. I hope to avoid the cross as much as possible in the beginners class.

]]> By: msHedgehog http://www.limericktango.com/2008/06/chucking-out-the-kitchen-sink/#comment-103 msHedgehog Tue, 01 Jul 2008 12:36:23 +0000 http://www.limericktango.com/blog/?p=460#comment-103 I think your argument is a very strong one. "First, do no harm" is a good principle, especially if the course is short. Is this a single-lesson starter, or will it be a progressive course where it will be introduced later? The perfect way to introduce it would be to find how to make them do it right the first time by accident, in the same way that everybody accidentally creates a backward ocho when they're learning to lead. I think your argument is a very strong one. “First, do no harm” is a good principle, especially if the course is short. Is this a single-lesson starter, or will it be a progressive course where it will be introduced later?

The perfect way to introduce it would be to find how to make them do it right the first time by accident, in the same way that everybody accidentally creates a backward ocho when they’re learning to lead.

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